When I saw Linda’s appearance on this podcast as a blog post option, I had to jump on the opportunity. Linda is someone that has helped me on a level that I cannot properly put into writing. I remember our final session, she told me that we would almost definitely be crossing paths when I finally decided to go to school and she checked in to make sure that I would be okay with that. I was more than okay with that, Linda is a truly remarkable person and by the end of our sessions I saw her as a mentor, not just a therapist. Listening to this podcast was an opportunity for me to learn from her as a student, not as a client.
Near the beginning of the podcast, Linda refers to period of time after the winter solstice as the “Dark night of the soul”. She explains that the Alaskan winter tends to send a person into the darker parts of their psyche and that this is a time that she embraces. I believe that this is an example of the way that she feels that reframing a negative situation into a time to learn about ourselves and to bring individuals together. I feel that this is resonated in the way that Linda talks about her past. She was a Vietnamese refugee at a young age and ended up living in Australia, undoubtedly experiencing a great deal of trauma along the way . It seems that after embracing that she did not feel that she fit in within Australian or Vietnamese culture, she traveled, where she discovered Alaska and a place that she felt she could truly call home. A place that allowed her to fully appreciate her culture and the cultures that she had experienced in the past.
I feel that Linda’s sensitivity to and understanding of other cultures has influenced her methods of teaching as well. Christian and Linda talk about non-hierarchal education practices, like talking circles and building professional relationships with students. Linda mentions that the simple act of addressing students by their name, led to more successful learning experiences for her students, likely because they felt that they were respected. With my military background, non-hierarchal structure is something taht I have little experience with professionally, almost alien. I know that in the past the greatest teachers and trainers that I have had were individuals that met me on my level. I am someone that often goes out of my way to disobey “Big brother” and have noticed that I respond better to instruction that I can relate with. An instructor that calls me by name, makes mistakes and promotes open communication, is something that I wish I had throughout my life. It makes an environment that promotes growth.
Christian and Linda touch on the association between culture and the classroom multiple times throughout the episode. But they also touch on the association between culture and trauma. Linda expresses her definition of Ancestors, it is a definition that transcends conventional ancestry. Both Linda and Christian talk somewhat briefly about their own personal ancestry, which leads to an enlightening conversation about ancestral grief work. Ancestral grief work acknowledges the trauma that is passed down through one’s lineage and consists of utilizing grief to process the trauma experienced by someone’s ancestors. While I do not have very much knowledge of my family lineage, I have a good understanding of the intergenerational trauma that is carried through my father’s side of the family. Domestic violence and emotional abuse has long been a symptom of the patriarchs of the Fine family. I was fortunate that my father was the link in the chain that decided to break, but I know that some of his upbringing still managed to sneak into my childhood. I feel that ancestral trauma work may be helpful to others in similar situations. Uncovering and understanding the circumstances that lead to trauma moving through generations can be freeing for some, as Linda and Christian discuss. You could even zoom out and apply that to whole communities. Everyone, together, helping each other to process and move through trauma on that scale could be world shifting. I feel that this can be seen in practice through support groups today. People with similar experiences helping others to heal.
One of my favorite sections of this podcast, was the section regarding healthy aggression. Healthy aggression was one of the topics that I have had the good fortune to learn about from Linda face-to-face over a span of many weeks. She describes it as requiring you to be aware of your own boundaries and the boundaries of others and knowing when it is time to make your voice heard. This is a concept that sounds simple, but one that becomes increasingly more difficult to understand the more you think about it. I found that my eventual interpretation of healthy aggression, was the ability to advocate for myself and the ability to be stern and concise when I find that one of my boundaries was being crossed. I feel that healthy aggression has the potential to turn into unhealthy aggression if one is not mindful of the annihilation energy that they may hold inside themselves. Linda describes annihilation energy as ancestral, lived, even systemic trauma that leads us to lash out with the intent to harm, physically or otherwise. That is unhealthy aggression, weaponized hate, directed often at ourselves. Healthy aggression can be useful, it can help us stand up, it can help us stay safe, it can help us succeed. Unhealthy aggression can only lead to harming ourselves and others. I feel that healthy aggression could be an invaluable tool, especially when mastered.
Around the end of the podcast, Linda describes social workers as different parts of the body. She states that some are the head, some are the arms, some are the mouth, etc.. This is also something that I feel I have seen first-hand. The agency that I work for has quite a few social workers in its ranks, all filling various roles. I feel that this analogy refers to the positions that social workers may hold, but also the way they think, that is what I notice the most at work. Some have logical, focused minds and some have more creative, explorative minds. I feel that this leads to a vast assortment of ideas and solutions being passed around throughout the company. I feel that this leads to a more collaborative approach to treatment and ultimately leads to us being more effective for our clients. This analogy does not just apply to social work and behavioral health agencies though, I feel that it bleeds into most other occupations, even the community in general. Collaboration between peers almost always leads to positive outcomes, assuming that the intent of the solution is positive for the world. I might even venture to say that, on the grand scale, the world is the body and that we, individually, are the cells that it is comprised of.
After listening, I went back and listened again…and again…and so on. Each time there was something new to learn or some anecdote to take away. I definitely didn’t cover all of the topics in this episode and even if you don’t plan on commenting and you are just here to read what I have to say, maybe go listen anyway. The episode is an hour and a half, but there is so much packed into it that its hard to believe it’s that short. It even made it onto my short list of downloaded podcast episodes, which is quite the feat. Thanks for reading and I am looking forward to learning from all of you this week.
Photograph of Linda Thai: https://www.linda-thai.com/about/biography
All other photographs are stock images with minor editing for size reasons
Neveah Reese
How special! That’s pretty neat how she guided you through a journey and can still be a part of this one in a new way. That is something that I love about Fairbanks, our community is so tight knit. I never have heard of or seen Linda Thai before watching the podcast, but man does she speak in poetry. Each word meshed so beautiful with the other leaving a soothing, but sometimes confusing (due to deepness), feeling of relatability. I found it very interesting how Christian asked about her finding her place in Alaska among indigenous peoples and when Linda spoke about her experiences here, she explained something that a lot of individuals fail (or don’t think) to mention. Her upbringing brought lots of feelings of exclusion. She put in her own words how she felt she wasn’t Vietnamese enough or Australian enough, but Alaska has allowed her to be more with everything. More her, more inclined to experience or indulge nature, more self-aware, more connected to people, and I think that is the special thing about our state. We get to live in a culturally rich environment that is built on love, respect, sharing, nature, and sustainability. Finding that feeling of grounding and self-acceptance is so vital for social work because, if you don’t feel secure how do you plan to guide others in their own security?
Through the resources and materials, as well as professor videos, I have been creating this tight tie between social work and education that wasn’t as strong before. Although I related them, I never thought about how much education fits into social work. A lot of the times we think about counseling, state assistance, or agencies that have case workers working with clients. In reality, education is one of the largest social work avenues and maybe the most impactful. I agree that if we can focus less on academics (or teach them in more interdisciplinary ways) and more on self-identity, culture, emotional intelligence, and the entire family unit we can change the course of our communities. So many systems track us by a race, number, gender, socio-economic characteristics, etc. when really the foundation of all of it is people.
I had a great time reading your blog and seeing how this podcast impacted you both personally and professionally. It’s a new perspective when material can alter you in so many areas of your life. Thank you for sharing yours and getting me thinking!
Robi Naranjo
Thank you for sharing and that is awesome that you knew her in real life before now and get to learn from her as a student! I like how you likened people to cells in a body and how social work is like different parts of a body working together.
Josh Fine
Thank you for reading Robi, though I cannot accept the credit for your comment regarding social workers as the parts of the body. That was Linda’s metaphor, not my own.
Robi Naranjo
thanks for that clarification!
Sharla Huckabey
WOW!
I first have to say I have never been one to like podcasts. This podcast took me to another level. I can relate to how you say it is an hour and a half long but short. I thought it was too long, but when I started listening, I was so into what Linda and Christian were saying that it seemed like time had passed quickly. I didn’t want it to end.
I think it is incredible that you know her in person. She seems to be a person everyone should meet. The words she speaks and how she speaks them resonated with me. She touched a trigger I didn’t even know I had. When she spoke the words tears immediately rolled down my face. Then I thought, wow, I had never heard that before and certainly had never had something affect me like that.
I like your blog and how you presented about the podcast.
Ian Miller
Hey Josh! I do not think I have ever met a person who has met Linda, and not have the most positive things to say about her and their own experiences/growth from their interactions with her. In a world where we have everyone telling us what to do, it is a breath of fresh air to meet someone who helps us speak to ourselves. Which, to me, is the ultimate definition of a mentor.
I too enjoyed the conversation of “healthy aggression”. It is empowering to realize that it is okay to stand up for ourselves and for us to know that the space we take up in this world is our right. But simultaneously being respectful of the space of others. Too often it seems that people want to shush everyone around them because what is being said or felt is too much of an inconvenience. But when people open up space for you, or you open up a safe space for someone else, that is the healthy connections we all truly need.
Thank you for doing a great blog on this podcast!
Jillian Bowman
I really loved your blog post and they way you laid it out, definitely taking notes for my own in the future! I’ve never thought of Social Workers as different parts composing the same body but it makes perfect sense! I’ve met so many different social workers the comprise of completely differing roles but usually have the same end goal. Healthy aggression is something I’ve been working towards for a long time though I’ve never called it that. Sometimes aggression has such a negative connotation its hard to do anything but shy away from it. I think it’s amazing that she helped guide you in one path of life and now she has the opportunity to help guide you in another!